Tuesday, 7 July 2015

Mumsnet forum gets UK political researcher to ask searching questions about 'MLM'

Recently, I have been in contact with a British political scientist/ researcher who has begun to look at so-called 'Multi-Level Marketing.' 


The researcher first became aware of 'MLM' after listening to a disturbing  American public radio programme about an 'MLM' called  'Wake Up Now.' 


He then discovered that 'Wake Up Now' has closed-down.

The researcher was then astonished to discover what has been going on in the USA concerning 'Herbalife,' because the ongoing investigation of this vast publicly-traded 'MLM company' by agencies of the US federal government, hasn't really been reported by the British mainstream media even though 'Herbalife' has been operating in Britain for many years.

Over the weekend, I was asked some uncommonly interesting questions by the same researcher who, after being directed to a significant group of concerned British witnesses to the disturbing results of 'Forever Living Products' (on a popular Internet forum, 'Mumsnet'), now accepts that probably the entire 'MLM' phenomenon is not at all what it seems to be at first glance. The Internet (particularly Facebook), is infested with robotic 'FLP' recruiters, all reciting the same 'Prosperity Gospel' script. 

I don't usually take part in public debates on forums, but the researcher persuaded me to post evidence concerning the wider 'MLM' phenomenon (+ my overall analysis of 'MLM' as being part of the cult/totalitarian phenomenon) on 'Mumsnet,' just to see what the reaction of ordinary members of the British public would be. Predictably, the more information I posted and the more I insisted that 'Mumsnet' members should concentrate on examining the wider-picture of 'MLM:' the more overwhelmed certain members became, and the more I became unwelcome on the 'Forever Living Products' thread.

Even though Mumsnet members essentially agreed with my overall analysis, a few of them started to say that my explanation of the MLM phenomenon was both long and hard to read and that it sounded as though I was an obsessed conspiracy theorist.Yet, ironically, I'd made it very clear in my explanation, that in order to understand cultism fully, observers need to be able to put their existing beliefs and instincts to one side, and think the unthinkable. 

The researcher then asked me: 
  • Why do you think the true failure rates in MLMs have not been reported by UK journalists?
  • What would you say has been the true extent of MLM in the UK?
  • Does MLM have any precedent?
  • Do you think that MLM will ever be banned in the UK?
  • Why do think some people prefer to see MLMs as frauds, rather than cults?

David Brear (copyright 2015).


  1. Dave,

    MLM doesn't exercise much attention because at first glance, it seem more like a victim-less crime, because it's victims are the true believers. They must reap their own Karma. They usually walk away from their losses like they'd had a bad spell of luck in the casino. People are continuously drawn to gambling, and the accumulated losses of others doesn't serve to stop new gamblers from stepping up to the tables.

    1. quixtarisacult - The ''FLP/MLM' discussion on Mumsnet continues, and it's quite encouraging how clearly the (largely British women) forum members see the 'MLM' phenomenon as both a fraud and a cult. What a number of members still don't get, is the scale of the problem and the fact that 'MLM' is merely an up-dated version of an age old phenomenon.

      Although 'MLM' adherents have been present on other Mumsnet threads, on the threads in question, only rational persons have been participating. Their general lighthearted tone has been very similar to that on 'Married to an Ambot,' and they have been swopping funny stories about their own FLBots.

      'FLP adherents have been literally infesting Facebook.

      Predictably, when I intervened on Mumsnet and explained that, due to its global scale and unopposed infiltration of traditional culture, 'MLM' cultism has become the most significant and profitable development of the cult /totalitarian phenomenon since WWII, I was branded a 'lunatic' by one outraged Mumsnet member. The phrase 'conspiracy theory' also appeared.

      At that point, I defended my overall analysis, but a few other members then insisted that I was only damaging my credibility by comparing 'MLM' to Nazism. They've now got back to their original lighthearted discussion which hopefully will help to prevent people from joining 'FLP.'

      Yet the Mumnsnet members whose critical faculties shut down at the mention of the word 'Nazi,' and who dismissed my overall analysis, still agreed that everything else I'd written on 'MLM' was spot on.

      This is exactly what I wanted to demonstrate to the reseacher - that the full truth about cultism is unthinkable to most people, and that the few people who do see the phenomenon clearly, are regularly branded 'crazy.'

    2. quixtarisacult- The discussion on Mumnsnet has now swung back to what makes 'FLP/MLM' a pyramid scheme. I'm actually being quoted (but without attribution) by the same member who previously described my overall analysis of 'MLM' cultism, as 'lunatic;' so (reluctantly) I've intervened again.

      This is what I've said:

      No one is now seriously disputing that (since the 1940s) the overwhelming majority of claimed 'MLM sales' have always been to persons under contract to so-called 'MLM' companies, rather than to members of the general public. What's now being disputed (particularly by the 'Herbalife' mob) is why 'MLM' adherents have been regularly buying products and services (often of a dubious pseudo-medical nature) at fixed-prices which have rendered them demonstrably-unsaleable on the open-market to persons with fully-functioning critical and evaluative faculties.

      Thus, because 'Herbalife' is now under the spotlight, after all these decades, 'Herbalife distributors' have all suddenly been re-defined on their take it or leave it contracts as 'Herbalife Members' (to make it appear to ill-informed casual observers that most contractees of 'Herbalife' are merely authentic 'discount customers' and 'end users' whose purchases have been based exclusively on value and demand).

      Yet the answer to this tragicomic dispute has been staring the world in the face right from the outset of the big 'MLM' lie, because all 'MLM' cults have been defrauding and enslaving their adherents by offering them commission payments on their own purchases, and on the purchases of their own recruits, and on those of the recruits of their recruits, etc. ad infinitum.

      In plain language, a never-ending chain comprising countless millions of transient 'MLM' adherents have been, and continue to be, peddled infinite shares of their own finite money. Whilst a bunch of dunces with law diplomas (i.e the regulators) have to date failed to work out the obvious solution to the 'MLM' enigma that the effectively-unsaleable 'MLM' products, and services, have been an artificially over-valued investment commodity, the hidden function of which has been to launder ulawful losing investment payments into a classic closed-market swindle or pyramid scam (based on the false-expectation of future reward).

      If you take my technical analysis even further, when the wider-picture is examined, the ambiguous and unenforceable undertakings which the 'Amway' bosses fed to a naive federal Judge back in the 1970s, were merely an attempt to obstruct justice in order to continue to commit fraud all over the world. As such these smokescreen 'Amway undertakings' (which have been adopted by all the big 'MLM' cults) form part of an overall pattern of ongoing major racketeering activity (as defined by the US federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, 1970).

    3. David

      Thanks "eyespy" I found the Mumsnet forum entertaining and full of common sense, but without your comments it's got nothing original on MLM.

      Some of the Mumsnet crowd are British attorneys aren't they?

    4. Anonymous - The Mumsnet forum is actually serving a very useful purpose, because it's revealing the level of the 'FLP' problem in the UK at the moment.

      Some of the MN contributors appear to solicitors (civil lawyers in the UK).

      I feel that the reaction of several MN members to 'FLP' is very close to my own reaction to 'Amway' back in the 1990s.

      Initially, it's very difficult to look at the wider picture. You need a lot of free time and motivation to dig deeply into the cult phenomenon.

      It took me several years of research to arrive at much higher level of understanding of cultism.

  2. David,

    I have visited and read some of the comments on Mumnsnet. Although interesting, it seems like I've always got other things on my mind. There certainly are a lot of opinions on the cultic phenomena of MLM. Throughout there is a sprinkling of truths, although most people do not devote much time or thought to something which at first seems rather straightforward. No one I suppose likes to see their belief system trashed. I've garnered my share of abusive language from people who's argument is to resort to name calling, rather than providing any rational argument.

    The label "cult" isn't necessarily viewed as a bad thing, although not the banner cultists actually hang over the gates to their kingdom. "Cult" seems to invoke another word they'd rather use: "enthusiasm." Another word might be "viral".

    Not far from my home, there is a business whose sign reads: "Cult Marketing". Obviously the proprietor of this firm doesn't see anything but good in "cult". Cults ideally take on a life of themselves. People don't mind being manipulated as long as they can do a little bit of manipulation on their own. Everyone wants to get their hands dirty in a cult. It is a top down totalitarian movement. Reminds me of a bucket of crabs, but most people don't see the seedier side of their pursuits. MLM is a bee hive of con-men/women who are both the abused and the abuser. The phenomena is widespread and takes many forms beyond traditional labels like 'business.' Vultures lurk everywhere, only some are more malevolent than others. Believers don't realize that a cuckoo bird has left a egg in their nest.

    John Brown may have been a firebrand, but wasn't necessarily wrong about the evils he opposed. Your assessment that "freedom is slavery" isn't easily understood by many, but is the trap so many erstwhile people fall into when they fall for the MLM scheme.

    1. Thanks for your thoughts quixtarisacult.

      I'm sure you will agree that, many long years before the 'capitalist MLM' version of the Utopian fairy story appeared, Goethe described its results perectly when he wrote :

      'None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.'

      We've just got to accept, that many highly-educated people will always refuse to accept that 'MLM' cultism is only the latest development of an age-old phenomenon.

  3. David what the fuck is all this on e-bay UK?????


    1. Anonymous - It's exactly what is shown in the comic-book advert - it's another magic 'FLP' potion (comprising cheaply-procured common substances), which (if bought and consumed with religious devotion) can transform ordinary humans into superhumans.

      It's against 'FLP's' rules to advertise 'FLP' products on the open market, so this is possibly a former adherent trying to off-load inventory.