tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post7563652114679480839..comments2024-03-27T23:11:38.102+01:00Comments on 'MLM' The American Dream Made Nightmare: California Judge rules losing-investors should have realized 'Herbalife(HLF)' shares were not safe.David Brearhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-44067081741782893832015-05-11T10:20:12.360+02:002015-05-11T10:20:12.360+02:00Anonymous - I'm not entirely sure what your po...Anonymous - I'm not entirely sure what your point is. <br /><br />Judge Fischer refused to allow a lawsuit against 'Herblife' to continue on the not-unreasonable grounds that persons who have invested their own, and other people's, cash in 'Herbalife,' and who now realize that 'Herbalife' is the effectively-valueless front for a criminal enterprise, have only themselves to blame. <br /><br />Judge Fischer has offered no opinion as to whether she thinks that 'Herbalife' has been hiding a criminal enterprise. What she has ruled is that all the information has been publicly available for anyone to form their own opinion. <br /><br />I actually think that this lawsuit was ill-conceived in that the plaintiffs should have included the US regulatory agencies which have effectively given a green light to the 'Herbalife' racketeers. The argument being, if FTC and SEC agents have allowed 'Herbalife', why is it reasonable to expect investors to have spotted 'Herbalife' as as being the effectively valueless corporate front fo a criminal enterprise, when regulators didn't? <br /><br />This common-sense argument begs the common-sense question: What is the point of having regulators if they can't spot, let alone stop something as obviously fraudulent as so-called 'Multi Level Marketing?'David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-85972442245853937052015-05-11T09:56:38.732+02:002015-05-11T09:56:38.732+02:00Judge Fisher obviously hasn't been exposed to ...Judge Fisher obviously hasn't been exposed to the hundred's thousands of 'Distributors' sold on the upline marketing blurb and then lost thousands of dollars. <br /><br />Ok, ruling probably strictly correct on black & white letter of the law.<br /><br />Think though how much Facebook, Google and other internet companies are valued at. First hint of hostilities and NO INTERNET and no FB, Google.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-27782018442735981542015-03-20T11:53:58.698+01:002015-03-20T11:53:58.698+01:00Thank-you for these insights.Thank-you for these insights.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-77300719279149234132015-03-20T11:41:24.112+01:002015-03-20T11:41:24.112+01:00Anonymous - What I'm saying is that the 'M...Anonymous - What I'm saying is that the 'MLM' cancer has been maliciously disguised as 'free-market capitalism and the American Way,' in order to make the truth unthinkable to all casual observers (including judges, regulators, journalists, legislators, etc.). 'MLM' racketeers have pretended affintity with traditional American patriotic values, and this is how their updated version of the age-old totalitarian cancer has gnawed its way (largely-unrecognized) deep into the heart of the American republic.<br /><br />It is going to take an American leader, rather than a federal judge, of a very high moral and intellectual calibre to recognize the 'MLM' cancer for what it is, let alone take the decision to cut it out. <br /><br />In the final analysis, this largely-unrecognized, but nonetheless historically-significant criminogenic phenomenon (laughably referred to as 'MLM'), is a test of whether governement of the people by the people and for the people, has become government of cultic racketeers, by cultic racketeers for cultic racketeers.David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-4103096072195476922015-03-20T11:26:53.445+01:002015-03-20T11:26:53.445+01:00Are you saying that no American judge will rule &#...Are you saying that no American judge will rule 'Herbalife' is a pyramid scheme?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-68436589054764159652015-03-20T11:24:03.911+01:002015-03-20T11:24:03.911+01:00Exactly so quixtarisacult.
Judge Fischer has duc...Exactly so quixtarisacult. <br /><br />Judge Fischer has ducked (or rather 'Black Swanned') probably the most important issue that will ever come into her court, but, in the end, can anyone blame her?. <br /><br />That said, Judge Fischer has probably done the right thing in refusing to allow this lawsuit to continue, because the Plaintiffs had no excuse for not realizing that 'Herbalife' shares were unsafe, but she has sent an ambiguous message to the world which must have offered great encouragement to 'MLM' racketeers.<br /><br />The Plaintiffs' attorneys apparently made no reference to the fact that 'Herbalife' (a demonstrably-criminal enterprise) was allowed to be capitalized on Wall St. and, therefore, effectively-authorized by agencies of the US federal government. <br /><br />In effect, Judge Fischer has also ruled that agencies of the US government failed to perform due diligence.<br /><br />Notice how this story was inaccurately reported (in certain publications) as 'a federal judge throwing out a lawsuit accusing Herbalife of being a pyramid scheme.' Implying that Judge Fischer had ruled that 'Herbalife' is not a pyramid scheme.<br /><br />The obvious, common-sense question to put to Judge Fischer now, is;<br /><br />Hand on heart Madame, what would be your personal reaction if a member of your own family , or a close friend, suddenly announced that he/she had signed up with 'Herbalife,' or with any one of hundreds of similar organizations offering the public so-called 'MLM income opportunities?'<br /><br />There is no way that Judge Fischer woud voluntarily give an honest answer to this question (publicly).<br /><br />Dale Susan Fischer is a federal judge who must have realized that the comic-book term 'MLM' has been fronting countless product-based pyramid schemes. However, she has sought, and found, a rational escape from saying so, because all Hell would have broken loose if she had. <br /><br />'Herbalife's' share price would almost certainly have collapsed and Judge Fischer would have found herself being attacked on all sides by hordes of fanatical 'MLM' adherents and propagandists screaming that she 'is another enemy of free-market capitalism and the American Way.'David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-51926709179677677532015-03-20T05:20:36.526+01:002015-03-20T05:20:36.526+01:00David,
It seems to me that Judge Fischer is spli...David, <br /><br />It seems to me that Judge Fischer is splitting hairs. She isn't ruling that Herbalife is a pyramid scheme while saying that investors failed to perform 'due diligence' in recognizing that pyramid scheme allegations existed prior to Bill Ackman's Pershing Square report. Isn't she saying that investors should have known better? <br /><br />quixtarisaculthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07051645876072252255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-48336915118234094042015-03-19T15:03:23.524+01:002015-03-19T15:03:23.524+01:00Anonymous - Judge Fischer's, footnote, apparen...Anonymous - Judge Fischer's, footnote, apparently refers to 'Black Swan Theory.'<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory<br /><br />I must confess that this is a concept which I have never encountered. Having briefly looked at 'Black Swan Theory', I think that it is a fundamentally flawed, and extremely dangerous, theory which casts serious doubts over the thought processes of Judge Fischer. She seems to be suggesting that 'Herbalife's' instigation, the rise of the 'Herbalife' share price, Ackman's analysis of 'Herbalife' and the resulting collapse of the 'Herbalife' share price, were so-called 'Black Swan Events:'<br /><br />'Black swan events were introduced by Nassim Nicholas Taleb in his 2001 book Fooled By Randomness, which concerned financial events. His 2007 book The Black Swan extended the metaphor to events outside of financial markets. Taleb regards almost all major scientific discoveries, historical events, and artistic accomplishments as "black swans"—undirected and unpredicted. He gives the rise of the Internet, the personal computer, World War I, dissolution of the Soviet Union, and the September 2001 attacks as examples of black swan events.'<br /><br />I'm now wondering whether, after completing her recent ruling, Judge Fischer sang three choruses of 'My Darling Clementine,' before falling down in a heap.<br /><br /><br /><br />David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-28361096843782677142015-03-18T23:15:03.764+01:002015-03-18T23:15:03.764+01:00Anonymous - Perhaps we are missing some cryptic se...Anonymous - Perhaps we are missing some cryptic secondary meaning here?, but the last place for ambiguous comments should be a judicial ruling. Taken at face value, the judge's footnote, and particularly her ornithological analogy, make very little sense. Black swans do most certainly exist. Perhaps the most famous keeper of black swans, was Winston Churchill.<br /><br />Some of the key information which the 'Herbalife' racketeers have deliberately withheld from regulators and investors, concerns: <br /><br />- the overall number of persons who have signed contracts with 'Herbalife' since the company's instigation.<br /><br />- the number of contractees of 'Herbalife' who have generated an overall net-profit from the so-called 'Herbalife income opportunity.'<br /><br />- the percentage of 'Herbalife's' overall declared revenue that has ultimately derived lawfully from regular retail sales of goods, and/or services, directly to the general public (based on value and demand).<br /><br />Judge Fischer's footnote seemed to be inviting the Plaintiff's attorney's to go away and come back with a much stronger complaint.David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-65663299717686221222015-03-18T22:53:06.665+01:002015-03-18T22:53:06.665+01:00Judge Fischer wote a footnoote:
"Just as bl...Judge Fischer wote a footnoote:<br /><br /> "Just as black swans may exist, there may theoretically be some form of opinion that is factual or revelatory in nature such that it qualifies as a corrective disclosure," Fischer wrote in a footnote. "Such an opinion would need to reveal to the market something previously hidden or actively concealed. That is not this case."<br /><br />What the hell does this mean David?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-16950421944430744912015-03-18T22:47:12.250+01:002015-03-18T22:47:12.250+01:00Joecool - I would contend that the way the 'Am...Joecool - I would contend that the way the 'Amway' mob avoided being held to account in 1979 (by pretending to a naive, and/or corrupt, federal judge to have ended price-fixing and to have introduced 'rules' which prohibited a closed-market swindle or pyramid scheme) constituted obstruction of justice in order to continue to commit fraud. As such the tactics pursued by the 'Amway' mob, and their attorneys, during the 1970s, formed part of an overall pattern of ongoing major racketeering activity as defined by the US federal Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, 1970.<br /><br />As you rightly point out, these tactics have been copied by numerous 'MLM income opportunity' racketeers and their own attorneys.David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-53071389577912239872015-03-18T21:36:47.520+01:002015-03-18T21:36:47.520+01:00The FTC messed up in 1979 when they let Amway off ...The FTC messed up in 1979 when they let Amway off the hook. That in turn, allowed many MLM companies to copycat Amway's plan and remain legal, even though in practice, they were running pyramid schemes. Joecoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09121920263105613498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-12365040016505889872015-03-18T16:41:48.127+01:002015-03-18T16:41:48.127+01:00Anonymous - Ultimately the USA is at fault for all...Anonymous - Ultimately the USA is at fault for allowing this absurd lie entitled 'MLM Income Opportunity,' to infiltrate traditional culture, and spread around the world, to a degree where the truth has become almost unthinkable.<br /><br />The USA should have long-since become an international laughing stock, because of its chronic failure (as a nation) to recognise, let alone prevent, 'MLM income opportunity' cultism. The USA should also have been held to account financially, for allowing its home grown racketeers to thieve from millions of citizens of dozens of countries around the globe.<br /><br />It doesn't surprise me in the least that this latest US federal Judge hasn't accepted what really lurks behind hundreds of counterfeit 'direct selling' companies, like 'Herbalife,' because legalistically cultism does not exist, and cultism is designed to be beyond ordinary understanding.<br /><br />Even the staff of Pomerantz LLP, repeated the thought-stopping jargon term, 'legimate MLM company,' in their complaint, and qualified this absurd fairy story by saying that it meant 'a company with revenues that ultimately generated from sales to the general public.'<br /><br />In reality , no so-called 'MLM' company has ever produced independent quantifiable evidence to prove that its declared revenue has ultimately derived lawfully in the overwhelming majority, from regular retail sales of goods, and/or services, directly to the general public (based on value and demand).<br /><br />Indeed, it takes a leap of blind faith to think that such a lawful enterprise exists, but the dunces with diplomas at Pomerantz LLP evidently seem to have taken that leap..<br /><br />For decades, a growing number of legally-registered US-based corporate structures (arbitrarily-defined by their instigators as 'MLM companies') have been dissimulating closed-market swindles in which billions of dollars of losing investment payments (based on the false expectation of future reward) have been laundered as 'sales' (based on value and demand). <br /><br />In return for these billions of dollars of losing investment payments, countless millions of victims have been given goods, and/or services, which were effectively unsaleable on the open-market.<br /><br />When oh when, is someone going to be allowed to explain this shameful state of affairs to a Judge?David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7762286463497378104.post-90599895207339110332015-03-18T16:11:45.203+01:002015-03-18T16:11:45.203+01:00Ultimately, federal regulators are at fault for pe...Ultimately, federal regulators are at fault for permitting Herbalife to be sold on Main St. and Wall St.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com